Wednesday, December 31, 2008

Four Foul Fakeries Perpetuated by Fatwah....

To my Conservative Friends:

We all know our friend and guest blogger, Alabama Ben is an extremely educated when it comes to history... So I asked him to do a follow-up article on my piece yesterday about the Gaza conflict. Ben makes some excellent points here about the historic falicies about the conflict that are really interesting and I know you will find them informative as well...

As always, thanks Ben for chipping in....

Enjoy....

GOP Mike

The Israeli/Palestine Conflict - Myths revealed....
by Alabam Ben

Ok, time to put some of these myths of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to bed. And by bed, I mean buried deep, deep in the salt-sewn earth so that nothing remotely resembling one of these myths grows there ever again.

Myth One: Israel is Occupying the Nation of Palestine in Gaza and the West Bank- Really? Then why is it before 1967 Gaza was a part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of Jordan? The Israelis did not take these lands until the Six Day War broke out between these nations and Israel triumphed over its aggressors.


If it’s true that the nation of Palestine existed in these locations, then where were the attacks and protests against Egypt and Jordan? And since Egypt and Jordan were two of the loudest supporters of the PLO and its activities at this time, why did they not give them “Palestine” when they held these territories?

Myth Two: The Palestinians inhabited key portions of Israel – most notably Gaza, the West Bank, and Jerusalem – for thousands of years and thus have right of possession. This argument is easily countered by the fact that Israelis have always resided in Israel since its original founding in Biblical times. Even when Babylon destroyed Israel and carried off most of her people, a portion remained.


The same occurred when the Romans drove a large portion of the Israelis out of their land: a portion of the people remained. If you really want to get technical about it, the land really belongs to the Canaanites, those tribes that inhabited the land before the Hebrews arrived under Joshua and conquered most of the Canaanite tribes, pushing them out of their ancestral land to claim the Promised Land given to them by God. If one takes God’s promise to the Israelites out of the equation, then the land obviously belongs to the Canaanites.

As there are no more Canaanites, however, we must conclude that the Israelis win by the age-old right of who was there first. After wiping out most of the Canaanites and assimilating the remainder under King David, Israel effectively secured its lasting presence in the region. The Canaanite connection leads me to the next topic:



Myth Three: Palestinians are descended from the Philistines - From the Canaanites, from Jacob’s brother Esau, and from just about anyone else that gives them more right to Israel than the Israelites. While it is certainly possible to be descended from everybody and their mother (If one is to take a literal viewpoint of creation as written in Genesis, then we are indeed all descended from one man and one woman. In which case, this whole argument is moot!), it is highly improbably for a people to be descended from literally just about everybody that would give you some semblance of a claim over another people. To make such a claim only serves to erode your position, as far as I’m concerned.

Yet they do just that. For example, Yasser Arafat, head of the PLO until his death in 2004, claimed to be a Palestinian of Philistine-descent, even though he was an Egyptian native of Cairo. That alone doesn’t make sense, but what makes even less sense is why one would claim to be a Philistine and use this as an argument for possession of Israel. It is true that the Philistines occupied Gaza back in Biblical times and made inroads into Israel during the time of King Saul and King David, but that is what they were: occupiers. They were native to the Aegean Islands before creating city-states in Gaza. To claim Philistine heritage as one’s right to possession of Israel is a tit-for-tat argument. It should even place them on the same level as Israel from their viewpoint, as the Philistines had to conquer somebody to take those cities.

There are then those that claim to be descended from the ten northern tribes of Israel, branch-off tribes if you will. To me, this makes about as much sense as a cousin to royalty claiming the throne of a kingdom when a direct descendant is still living and more than capable of assuming that role. Which is to say, it makes no sense at all! The same applies for those claiming to be descended of Jacob’s brother Esau. Jacob and his descendants were the rightful heirs according to their father Abraham. It wouldn’t even matter if the Palestinians were descended from Esau, as the cousin-to-royalty example illustrates.

My children will certainly be related to my brother, but they won’t get any of his stuff if he has offspring of his own that he leaves it all to. Alone, these arguments don’t stand up. Together, it just shows that the powers that be are desperately trying to come up with something legitimate-sounding for their people and the worldwide media to latch on to. Unfortunately it’s working, convoluted though it is.




Myth Four: The Arab nations supporting Palestinian autonomy have the moral high ground - where Israel does not - I find it interesting hearing all the Arab nations surrounding Israel decrying Israel’s allegedly foul treatment of the Palestinians when it was these same nations that displaced the Palestinians and treated them as subhuman in the first place, going leaps and bounds beyond what Israel has ever done to these people.

Israel is not the nation that placed the Palestinians within its borders into internment camps where there was little food, water, and medicine to go around. That crime goes to Egypt and Jordan at the time of Israel’s formation in 1947 when it was attacked by Arab nations from all sides. The Palestinians living inside Israel’s newly formed borders as well as the West Bank and Gaza willfully joined the Arabs for the promise of taking over Israel’s land once they had pushed the Israelis into the sea. They tried this again in 1967 and again failed.

During the times between, the Egyptians and Jordanians kept the Palestinians living within their borders in refugee camps. And once they had pushed them into Israel the Egyptians set up machine-gunners on the border to keep them from coming back. Very nice. Now, let’s say for the sake of argument that all these arguments against Israel are correct, and that Israel is indeed a displacer of Palestine. If this were true then the arguments placed by the Arab nations surrounding Israel would still hold no water, as they willfully persecuted the Jews living within their borders, some who had been living there for thousands of years. Some 700,000 Jews fled into Israel in the 1940’s because of this persecution. Were they not displaced from their ancestral homes? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.



But, even if that were true, the Israelites have treated the Palestinians far better than their neighbors treated them, and far better than their neighbors treated the Jews living within their own borders. To say otherwise is one of many lies being perpetrated by Israel’s enemies and the international media.

Conclusion - People need to realize that there is no such thing as the nation of Palestine. There never has been, and hopefully there never will be. Or, if there is, may it be as far removed from Israel as possible. Maybe somewhere deep in the Himalayas?


Alabama Ben

14 comments:

  1. This is a map drawn by T.E. Lawrenece (upon whose life said "Lawrence of Arabia film was based yes). It was drawn in 1918, based on which tribes were actually distinct enough to warrant their own nations or not.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Lawrence_map800.jpg

    Tell me if you see something strange.

    The whole "no nation" argument simply takes advantage of the fact that the arabs did not have for a large amount of pre-WWII history, distinct nationstate borders in a western fashion.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Your Liberal Friend:
    Alabama Ben has utilized his vast knowledge of history and has shown us the inevitable conclusion- There really should not be a Palestinian state in the Middle East.
    Well done Alabama Ben.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Well the Palestinians thing otherwise obviously.

    And guess what.

    So do the arab states, including oil producing OPEC and upwards moving (capitalism wise) Dubai etc.

    But wait, so does a significant part of the western world as well. Be it the equal to US GDP having EU, or half of the US "liberuls", and their brainwashed left leaning new generation.

    And finally, by the recognition and acceptance by Israel of -also- the Nation of Palestine as per the original UN plan that created it (Israel that is), and by others actions of it, like pulling out of Gaza etc.

    ...the fact is then that even if Palestinians "shouldn't have" a nation, they got some mighty 'fing good PR from the looks of it.

    Of cource there is the slight matter than Alabama Ben's history is mostly BS as well. Edumificate thyself from the true and one authority of all knowledge around, her lordship Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian

    (Personally, I always believed that it still belongs to the Roman Empire actually.

    Palestine doesn't have the right to exist because they don't have gay rights. Israel doesn't have a right to exist because of the Lebannon war. I didn't like that one)

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  4. I typically don't like to pull from Wikipedia for my primary source material, but for the sake of argument let's look at this entry.

    It was the Palestinians and neighboring Arab nations that rejected the United Nations partition plan. The Jewish leadership agreed to it, but in the end had to fight for their survival against five enemies bent on their destruction. God must have been with them, because they pulled it off drove them out.

    If they rejected it in 1947, why is it in 1964 the PLO suddenly wanted it back? They must have realized they threw away a good thing and ended up with table scraps from Egypt and Jordan as a consolation prize.

    And again, Israel did not take Gaza or the West Bank (Territories Palestinians refer to as their ancestral lands) until the Six-Day War. Why is it between 1947 and 1967 the Palestinians staged no protests or bloody rebellions against Egypt and Jordan, the holders of their sacred land? Why is it only after Israel captured them in the Six-Day War that it became a problem?

    Here's a piece I happened to see before dinner a little while ago. It's Page 2 to cut through a lot of buildup: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/161yaihr.asp?pg=2 While the main point was to be humorous, the guy hits on a lot of the same points, and looks at things in a different light. Why is it that the Arab nations despise Israel so much and seek to deny its existence? If they really cared about the Palestinians they would have carved out a piece of land for them before resorting to fighting Israel in two failed attempts to push them into the sea.

    And if the Palestinians really just wanted their fair piece of the pie, they would have agreed to the UN's proposal back in 1947 instead of throwing their lot in with their alleged allies, figuring they could get the whole thing in one go. They also would have prompted Egypt and Jordan to give them Gaza and the West Bank, which they did not decide to do until they lost the Six-Day War in 1967.

    Blowing up innocent men, women, and children certainly doesn't help their case either, but maybe that's just me. I, for one, agree with Israel when they say they won't sue for peace until the rockets stop falling (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/31/gaza.israel/index.html). Would any other nation in the world allow such a thing to go on without retaliation)? Not even France is that cowardly.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Also nations are not obligated to recognize giving up parts. Technically for the arabs its as if another nation's army settled in an area, then they did an "allies" style alliance, and then... the nazis won.

    As to why the Palestinians between 1947 and 1967 staged no protests when Palestine was under Jordan and Egypt, that'a
    a) Because they were kind of rag tag running away: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus
    b) because *they* were not a different culture of cource. Who weren't putting walls *in* Palestine in ways to divide water supplies and farms, demanding checkpoints and permissions (all in what is still considered someone else's land mind you) and so on.

    You are also clearly confusing what is "other arabs" with "palestinians". Egypt and Jordan might each, want to annex the entire place for all I care.

    But it is not Egypt which lives in Gaza right now. It's the distinct as identity Palestinians who were there before 1947, at which point, you hit the point I mentioned as taking advantage of arabs not using western clearly defined borders (passports are not an obligation by god, really) and the area having been drawned up as "transjordan" by the British.

    5th paragraph. Again confusing Arabs with Palestinians as if they are a single entity, and also thinking that when someone takes part of someone else's territory the solution is to simply carve for the displaced a place somewhere else. Well, I guess they don't feel that way, sometimes it happens with those pesky defenders.

    6th paragraph. The UN proposal, still does not include, a verly large piece of what was theirs, and suddenly a, let me read that again "world government" said it wasn't. Now, remind me how that would go on again with conservatives regarding say, say, 70% of the US territory?

    7th paragraph. Collectivist fallacy lazily demanding collective responsibility and collective punishment. Terrorism is a separate problem, done by individual, to which, any single palestinian that does not, in fact, commit a terrorist act, is irrelevant to, the same way an American is not guilty if some other random American is a pedophile. Of cource if said terrorism happens to annoy what for them is, as stated, the equivalent of "certain kind men" invading Poland, you can excuse them for not being very "energetic" in finding said terrorists out.

    In turn, the problem with Israel is not that it retaliates, thats the easy bit.
    It's that it retaliates with a well known laziness regarding what it hits or not (let's say, one that it wouldn't use *inside* Israel) resulting in results equal and worse than the terrorists. (except that they are also, according to our favorite Palestinian PR, "the occupiers", so terrorists vs occupying terrorists, the terrorists come up)

    In the meantime, everyone knows that Hama's rockets are comparatively, little toys they have to be really lucky with in order to hurt anything else but a chimney. They are also dirt cheap, and made by a pissed off population. Technically, you could say that their only usage is provoke a much more costly retaliation (any action that causes your enemy to spend more money, than you say building that rocket is a small economic victory) and/or, once Israel famously "misses" again, bring in more recruits from the pissed off population into the organisation. (maybe even replacing those that occasionally Israel does hit, lol)
    In that sense, Israel, tactically speaking, might not be "cowardly" but has deep throated that bait fully and properly exactly like Hamas wants.

    ReplyDelete
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